Observed Thought: Updating the players and rules?

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Savage Insight	Observed Thought: Updating the players and rules?	Lead	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/17/06 07:05:30) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I've been thinking about the confusion we had last event about the use of skills and various effects. The elder and a few senior players last event mentioned a few notes I recently recalled and decided to look up to make sure I understood them correctly. Killing strike and Increased damage were reputed to destroy weapons upon use, with the exception of Increased Damage's exception of having a high enough quality weapon. The online rules state this as true, however there's no note about Killing Strike destroying the weapon; is that stated in the rule book? We played "Feign Death" and "Mask of Death" last time as not taking damage upon use/onset because of the excessive hit style used by the newcomers (Hey, I'll keep hitting them until they say "dead" because I'll see some players get up). The online rules however state that should extra hits be applied, "Feign Death" is removed and damage is taken normally. Maybe we need a slight change? The skill could be nonmagical, while the magical one protects the player? I'm just running some thoughts. Maybe what we need is an out of game day to just sit and chill over rules and have a good time that way. Heh, I'm up for Saturday!
DK	Rules	#1	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/17/06 07:59:12) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'm not sure who said that Killing Strike destroys a weapon. It does not. The concept is that Improved Damage is hitting extra hard with the weapon, and normal weapons can not take the strain. Killing strike is knowing where to hit to avoid armor. It does not damage a weapon. The Feign Death interpretation was a mistake on my part. I wanted to keep the game moving, rather then stop and look up rules. I ended up making a call that contradicted what was written in the book. The book is the correct way the skill works. In the last session, many of the rules were enforced loosely due to the large number of new players. Most of the new players had never even glanced at the rule book before. And the players who knew the rules were outnumbered by players who did not. Because there was not time for every player to read the full description of every skill, I allowed a lot of things that I would not allow in a normal game. The session was more of a "Archaea-Lite".
DarvaOakstake	Re: Rules	#2	[-]
Posts: 9 (08/17/06 20:33:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I will say that there was some confusion that was coming from what we thought were experienced players (people who had played Archaea before) telling someone one thing, then someone else something different. There also seemed to be a need for a lot of cross referencing and such, which is really hard when there wasn't enough rulebooks or people to help explain things. That being said, I do have a question. It seemed that as NPCs we were expected to let the PCs win. Is this true? I know there was a lot of confusion about feign death (i,e, Can we keep hitting the person we saw use feign death before? If you are feigning death, what happens if you get up and make a motion while being watched? Do you have to fall down and act like you are dead to feign death?), and about what our abilities can do (which would be learned mostly through experience I suppose). There was also a question about how loud Magic must be said. In Amtgard, we have a rule that says "50 feet or the target, which ever is closer." I know this isn't Amtgard, but we were told a couple of times that magic can be said under your breath, but the online rules say it must be heard within 5 feet. Which is correct? The questions about weapons being destroyed wasn't killing strike (that I know of), it was Improved Damage. However, it did make since to have the weapon break if it wasn't "masterwork" or special in some way. On a related note, what things were allowed that normally wouldn't be. I'm asking to get a full since of how Archaea actually is. I was under the impression that other than the fact there was more people than normal, it was a normal day. The only exception is that the first battle took longer than normal. How is this remedied? Should the NPCs have given up earlier? As I have said before, we are very much interested in coming out again. I'm just trying to get as much information as possible. Also, if we are too disruptive to the game for whatever reason (I saw the post about not wanting more than 16 people), please let us know as well. We came to support you, not cause problems. Sir Darva Darva Sword Slinger God of Foam, thank you for this chance to kick ass. Amen.
DK	Rules: 1 of 3	#3	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/18/06 05:49:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There was a lot of confusion. Archaea is a complex game, and most players do not bother learning all the rules, they only learn the ones that pertain to them. I, for example, usaully play a character who has never cast a spell, and therefore I have never bothered to memorize the rules for writing and casting spells. For that reason, anybody making a spell caster I tried to send to April(Igraine), rather then give them false information. I did not expect the NPC's to let the PC's win. I expected the NPC's to do their best, and for the PC's to try to stop them. However, the PC's will usually eventually win. The game is, after all, their story. The NPC's will sometimes get disadvantages applied to them. The PC's will sometimes get disadvantages applied to them. (I played once where all PC's started the game in shackles, drugged and without weapons. They could not use any Feats or any Magic during the game.) Most importantly. When I posted that I considered 8 to 16 players as the ideal number, that was not in any way to imply that we did not want more players. That is what I personally consider the ideal number of players as we usually play. Archaea is quite capable of handling more players, and used to do so every week. As our player base shrunk, the adventures were structured to support a lower number of players. More players can easily be supported by 1) having more then one elder on the field, 2) putting side quests into adventures so that multiple things are being done at a time, and 3) as players play, their character develop and acquire goals. Fulfilling these goals usually requires more party interaction and less Elder adventure running. More players means more role-playing, more options to solving a problem, and larger battles. More players is good, not bad.
DK	Rules: 2 of 3	#4	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/18/06 05:52:07) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is how I interpret the rules from what is written. Tom may have a different interpretation. Feign Death: As I said, I made a mistake with this skill. Here is what I consider the actual rules. When a player uses Feign Death they should shout "Dead" and drop to the ground. (Just as if they had actually died.) It is extremely bad form to hit a 'dead' or helpless player. If you want to continue to do damage to a 'dead' player, then touch them with the sword, and state that you are hitting them, and for what damage. But don't actually swing at them. If someone is using Feign Death, and they take damage then the skill is broken and everyone can tell they are alive. If they get up, and have their weapons crossed over their head, then they are still Feigning Death. They are allowed to prepare items, ask questions of the Elder, etc. However, they need to lie down again before using any skills or items, attacking, getting up and running, or anything that breaks the skill. Magic: A magic spell has two parts. The incantation (to 'ready' the spell) and the invocation (to 'cast' the spell). The incantation is long. It has to be said clearly, but can be whispered. Anyone within swords reach of the caster should be able to tell that you are casting, although not necessarily make out the words. The invocation is the actual casting of the spell and the throwing of the spell ball. It should be shouted as loudly as possibly. Note however, there are spells, skills and situations where the rules will not be exactly as stated. There is a spell Mnemonic that allows the caster to complete skip the incantation part of the spell. If there is no combat going on, there is no reason for the caster to yell the invocation, as long as the target hears them. If there are any other questions about specific skills, either post the questions here, e-mail me, or ask at the next event before we get started, and I'll make sure to go over them.
DK	Rules: 3 of 3	#5	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/18/06 06:26:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There were a number of things that were allowed that normally wouldn't have been. I can't really give a full list, because a number of them were allowed simply because I wasn't there to see them happen, and couldn't tell the person they couldn't do it. A few people asked me questions after the game about things they had seen that shouldn't have been allowed. A few things I let slide, because fixing them would require stopping the game, or delaying the start of the game. Not all of the rules were things I saw occur. Some were mentioned to me. Some were questions people asked me. The main things I know of are as follows: Characters: No character can start with more then level three in any skill. Also, if players wish to be a member of an organization they must write a petition before they become a member and gain the benefits. Players are allowed a brief 'grace period' of a session or two, but if they have not submitted a petition, and been accepted into the organization by that point they lose all organization abilities. Shields: Only players playing a Rule of Arms character can have a shield greater then small. Only target shields are allowed to be strapped to an arm. No shield can be used by anyone wielding a two-handed weapon. Armor: Armor must weigh the appropriate amount and be made of the appropriate materials. Aluminum, titanium or other light-weight metal armor is not allowed. Chain mail must be made of at least 16 gauge steel. Armorsmithing: This skill works on a count per-hit location. A chain mail shirt which has short sleeves, would be 3 hit locations. Torso, left arm, right arm. This would be a 360 count PER POINT to be repaired. I'll add more as I think of them.
Savage Insight	Re: Rules: 3 of 3	#6	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/19/06 09:27:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DK said *Quote:* No shield can be used by anyone wielding a two-handed weapon. Wow, not even a buckler? I understand about all other kinds, but it's often I see lightly or unarmored two-handed weapon wielders with tiny bucklers or bracer-like rectagles strapped to their arm. If that's the case, hmm...
dukgrrl	Re: Rules: 3 of 3	#7	[-]
Posts: 392 (08/20/06 07:46:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I suppose I did a bad job explaining the rules for casting a spell. I did not mean that you could toss your spell ball and they would have to take the damage. The spells I was placing while laying on my side were Mnemonic, Armor, and Mask Of death. I casted a few of my attack spells softly and would only shout the incantation. I apologize If I had upset or confused anyone. Thanks, April ~Truth~Honor~Compassion~ Igraine Tsao-Moonblade ~Warden of the Dawn (April)
DK	Re: Two-handed weapons	#8	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/21/06 07:38:08) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That is actually my interpretation of the rules on Shields and Two-Handed Weapons. Archaea has the Rule of Intent. "Players should try to understand what has been laid out on paper plus the general intent behind each rule. Taking advantage of loopholes and re-interpreting the rules for personal gain can only be seen as destructive; looking for a way out of or around a rule is equally as bad as breaking the rule. " Two hands should be on a two-handed weapon at all times in combat. A shield is supposed to be used for blocking, not just as a piece of invulnerable armor. A target-shield is the only shield allowed to be strapped to the arm, and is only 14 inches in diameter. For a buckler shield to be allowed by someone using a two-handed weapon, they would have to show that their fighting style allows them to maneuver the shield to block during combat, while not taking a hand off the weapon. The most common two-handed fighters I have seen do not use such a style, they block with the blade.
Savage Insight	Blocking techniques...	#9	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/21/06 15:14:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If I were to have an upper arm buckler and a two-handed sword, is it required to actually thrust the shield into the path of the oncoming blade to count? I ask this because the style I'm working on is all about moving into or out of the way, and I realized that a buckler with some training could work well for passive blocks. Example: Active block: Incoming sword, I step forward, shield leading into the swing while immediately reposting with my own attack. Or Catches incoming swing/or pushes against opponents weapon with shield to make an opening for a strike. Passive block: incoming sword swing, I dodge in the same direction to open for a hit while simultaneously catching the incoming sword with the shield. Or incoming weapon strike, shield is lowered into the swing and player dodges backwards to get out of range while maintaining their own reach. Kind of see what I mean? It's hard to tell what would and would not count as shield style vs a small shield worn similar to armor. Personally I prefer a buckler or two to armor anyhow, agility is the key, and quite frankly, there's quite a few spells that zap shields. Thoughtfully, -Antonio
Kel von Graymere	Re: Blocking techniques...	#10	[-]
Posts: 195 (08/23/06 06:38:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As an aside, Mnemonic does not allow one to skip the incantation of a spell. It would be better to say that it allows one to store a spell. One still needs to say the full incantation for all spells put into mnemonic. The only way to skip the incantation is to use a feat of magic, and to use double the amount of spell points. It is the Elder's choice to allow people to start the adventure with a "precast" mnemonic spell, that might be where confusion sets in. Matt
Khazraith	Re: Blocking techniques...	#11	[-]
Posts: 32 (08/23/06 19:16:58) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* If I were to have an upper arm buckler and a two-handed sword, is it required to actually thrust the shield into the path of the oncoming blade to count? I would think that such a thing would not be allowed. It's more like armor than a shield. Historically speaking, bucklers were held in one's off hand. I've never seen a fighting manual that shows one strapped on enabling two weapon fighting. -Mamoon ben Rasheen
DK	Shields	#12	[-]
Posts: 107 (08/24/06 05:23:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	First: We're getting lost in semantics. The shield that can be strapped to an arm is not a 'buckler' it is a 'target shield'. In Archaea there is no shield size called 'buckler'. Second: I asked Ed a long time ago, and was assured that I could attach a target shield (and only a target shield) to my forearm. Third: I think Khazraith is right. Attaching a shield to an upper arm is armor, not a shield. Slinging a shield over your back gives you no defensive bonus. A shield must be used as a shield to afford any defense, that means held in the hand or a target shield attached tightly to the forearm. What I would suggest is a metal Pauldron ( www.geocities.com/wolfram...uldron.jpg ) that would give you 12 points of protection to the shoulder.
Maltri	Re: Shields	#13	[-]
Posts: 219 (08/25/06 11:02:19) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Guess I should speak up on this one since I am a person that uses a target shield (also known as a buckler) with a 2 handed sword (in darkon I also use it with a long spear) In Archaea, my target shield is magical (I am rule of knowledge) and I use it to activly block magical effects, as well as some incoming blows. It is much quicker when in multiple target combat to let go of the sword with one hand and defend ones backside with a target shield then it is to try and whip around the greatsword. One of the side effects of this, is that sometimes it is used passively, especially when only fighting one target, since it is much more efficient to deflect the blow with the blade, and still get a clean shot. You cant really get a shot in if you activly block it with the shield first. One of these days RL will not interfere, and I will be able to make it out to an event..... Scott
Savage Insight	Re: Shields	#14	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/25/06 15:39:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	DK said... *Quote:* Attaching a shield to an upper arm is armor, not a shield. Slinging a shield over your back gives you no defensive bonus. It sounds like people understood that I meant high up on my upper arm, when I meant quite the opposite. It's inefficient and even a bit clumsy to have a target shield on one's forearm when wielding any two-handed weapon except perhaps a spear. I noted the "upper arm" style from similar full-contact Larps as protecting the middle of the arm but was strapped on to the upper arm, leaving the shoulder and lower majority of the forearm open, giving free mobility to block in the manner and method of a shield. As Maltri noted (we miss ya buddy!), shields sometimes do come in contact passively. The manner in which a target shield would be used in this way would be much the same. I agree that something strapped up high to the back or shoulder is more like armor, despite historic precedence, and thus in Archaea, inappropriate. It is simply I argue that a shield can indeed be used in the manner it was intended with other methods than a hand and forearm. Armor is passive, meant to absorb hits if one's guard fails. Shields however, are active, and are part of one's guard and armory. Good Thoughts! -Antonio
Khazraith	Re: Shields	#15	[-]
Posts: 32 (08/25/06 23:13:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Actually, I assumed that "upper arm" was meaning the same location as a 'rearbrace'.. that is strapped above the elbow and below the shoulder. While this is a fantasy game, I've never seen historical president to support such a shield. Likewise, one must consider "shield armor". If it were possible to strap a shield to the upper arm, lower arm and held in one's hand... then it stands to reason that one might equip as many as 5 shields and still fight. Sure, it sounds silly... but it is this interpretation taken to the extreme. It's rarely the spirit of the rule that gets a rule changed... but rather the most extreme application. -Mamoon ben Rasheen
Savage Insight	If the Virginians more local to Burke can help...	#16	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/27/06 20:23:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Then I'd like to show up with my "martial bracers". I've been toying with the idea of a double light-swords/hookaxes and bucklers idea, though how effective (or allowed) it would be in Archaea, I'm not sure. Perhaps with an elemental charm, though question: do those count for first hit only like poison or for duration? As for a style with greatswords, I think maybe I'd just better invest in magic armor and skills/feats. Chain is gorgeous, but it really slows me down! Oh what the hey. A greatsword, bow/throwing dagger kit and protective/enhancement spells are deadly enough. But then again, the only bow I'd ever consider for LARP are Steve Ralph's, he's made stuntmen proof bows for over 20 years now. The price? $212. So, am I mad and crazy or just depraved? Comically, -Antonio (Tailen)
Khazraith	Re: If the Virginians more local to Burke can help...	#17	[-]
Posts: 32 (08/28/06 10:41:39) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"shield armor" in action: SCP-Larp-shield-armor-pic -Mamoon ben Rasheen
dukgrrl	Re: Blocking techniques...	#18	[-]
Posts: 392 (08/29/06 09:28:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Matt, I wasn't skipping the incantation. It was the rest of the spell they did not hear because I was doing so quietly. Bah - such a messy situation. ~Truth~Honor~Compassion~ Igraine Tsao-Moonblade ~Warden of the Dawn (April)
Savage Insight	Taking notes...	#19	[-]
Posts: 116 (08/29/06 16:35:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It's a pity we try so hard to take some notes from real life aspects. Its my guess that because real life practicality entailed actually kiling people, stabbing thrusts were much more common than side hits. It's my thought that if side swings were as common in real life as it is in U.S. larp, "shield armor" would be more prevalent in history. Lol, can you imagine?
ElderArchaea	rule of intent	#20	[-]
Posts: 1202 (10/03/06 07:34:11) Master of the Mists Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The discussion of rules and particular "house" conventions is important. (And I've been witness to a whole lot of pushing and breaking and remaking in my day.) No system can cover every single contingency. It's not possible. And, especially with a game that is relatively complex, playability often overrides "realism." Game balance is also an issue. *Quote:* I agree that something strapped up high to the back or shoulder is more like armor, despite historic precedence, and thus in Archaea, inappropriate. It is simply I argue that a shield can indeed be used in the manner it was intended with other methods than a hand and forearm. Armor is passive, meant to absorb hits if one's guard fails. Shields however, are active, and are part of one's guard and armory. I think SI has it right here... this isn't an issue about whether or not a target shield strapped to the arm or a shield on the back BLOCKS damage -- realistically, it does. But this is a game and some things that are virtual need to be grounded in something concrete. What's to keep anyone from just wearing a shield on their back all of the time? It's not being "used" and therefore any Rule could potentially do it. Therefore, the INTENT of the armor, weapon, and shield proficiencies is to anticipate who, what, when, and how something can or cannot be used. These rules REPRESENT other factors, other conditions, other issues. A shield used thusly becomes inconsequential, in my book. It becomes part of "garb" and therefore not protective in the game mechanics. Individual combats, between players, may decide that a hit to a worn but not wielded shield soaks the blow but the next time it is no longer effective. Ultimately, however, a shield (like a weapon) must be actively used in order to be effective. For example, all of our equipment and gear is often lighter than much of their real life counterpart. Most of our bodies, our musculature is not (currently) suited to the rigor of constant fighting. Yes, there are some things that match up or equate to history or real life. For the most part, we pretend. Do we make weapons and gear have weight minimums? Do we require everyone to pass a physical test before they can participate? Of course not... The Elders simply have to do their best and be as consistent as possible. A big thing to remember, as has been said, is the rule of intent... Elder of the Realm / Creator == MD/DC/VA Archaea ~~ http://www.archaea.org http://groups.yahoo.com/group/archaea

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Observed Thought: Updating the players and rules?

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